Holly, I do not know the answers for how humanity finds its way through the dangers you have expressed. But I know you are fighting the good fight. Thank you.
I’m not gonna doxx the whole conversation, and I also don’t understand his position (bc it doesn’t really make sense). Also, he HATES people attempting to summarize his positions or thinking and almost always says they don’t get it, which is what he kept telling me in this conversation.
But overall it seems like he thinks I’m mean to individual lab employees who are powerless to do anything about the problem (false, they can and should leave) and he thinks that “woke” cancellation energy is threat to his entire movement he’s built based on rationality. He sees it as gallant to be extra charitable to your enemies, and he sees that as necessary to not becoming DERANGED.
I think he’s suffering from a grossly distorted frame, where he’s allowed himself to privilege the bad people he knows at the expense of all the normies he doesn’t know and doesn’t like. He justifies his reticence as hyper-compassion and avoiding irrational moralizing even though what he’s really doing is refusing to intervene against a bully.
Yeah but that’s what he said. Freudian slip perhaps. I asked him why he was so angry at me and he said “… my fear of what happens to my movement of you gain power in it.”
Unfair doesn’t even begin to cover it. He was like asking me how I knew Trotsky wouldn’t follow me. As if “his” movement isn’t currently doing the most evil dangerous shit possible. His fear was that woke normies would get a say. Incoherent.
I don't generally agree with you either but I think your conduct is a lot better than anything from his sphere, so I appreciate you saying something here
People make comments like this thinking they are so profound but they just reflect that you simplify our side and think we should all be the same.
I thought Eliezer and I were closely aligned but it’s very important to him that we aren’t. If you’re implying I should have just taken his abuse and done what he wanted, no.
Oh good. You wouldn’t believe how often people treat me like I’m stupid for being the victim of this. Or for having standards about who I work with and what I let into PauseAI.
Oh dear! Perhaps the approach of, ahem, Ben Shapiro is an option - get a colleague to manage the account and so keep the benefits while filtering out the nonsense. (PS: Could someone (mis-)read the above post as a resignation letter not just from X/Twitter, but from PauseAI / the wider cause?)
Holly, I do not know the answers for how humanity finds its way through the dangers you have expressed. But I know you are fighting the good fight. Thank you.
Yudkowsky said this? What the fuck?
He was one of my heroes until this moment...
Can you elaborate, please, or explain this? He's the one who founded the whole AI safety movement, is he not?!
This needs to be bigger news, first of all. It needs to go on Less Wrong or something.
I’m not gonna doxx the whole conversation, and I also don’t understand his position (bc it doesn’t really make sense). Also, he HATES people attempting to summarize his positions or thinking and almost always says they don’t get it, which is what he kept telling me in this conversation.
But overall it seems like he thinks I’m mean to individual lab employees who are powerless to do anything about the problem (false, they can and should leave) and he thinks that “woke” cancellation energy is threat to his entire movement he’s built based on rationality. He sees it as gallant to be extra charitable to your enemies, and he sees that as necessary to not becoming DERANGED.
I think he’s suffering from a grossly distorted frame, where he’s allowed himself to privilege the bad people he knows at the expense of all the normies he doesn’t know and doesn’t like. He justifies his reticence as hyper-compassion and avoiding irrational moralizing even though what he’s really doing is refusing to intervene against a bully.
Would like to understand what's going on with Yudkowsky here...
Well he considers it a violation for me to “read his mind” so I guess you’ll just have to ask him
kind of curious about the context of "[his] movement", he usually works pretty hard to say he he doesn't personally own it
Yeah but that’s what he said. Freudian slip perhaps. I asked him why he was so angry at me and he said “… my fear of what happens to my movement of you gain power in it.”
Unfair doesn’t even begin to cover it. He was like asking me how I knew Trotsky wouldn’t follow me. As if “his” movement isn’t currently doing the most evil dangerous shit possible. His fear was that woke normies would get a say. Incoherent.
I don't generally agree with you either but I think your conduct is a lot better than anything from his sphere, so I appreciate you saying something here
I find it utterly hilarious that "anti-AI" for lack of a better term is split into like 1000 factions, you and Yud genuinely do not disagree on much.
But pro-AI includes people who want AI boyfriends, normie deregulationists who think its a new tool, and Beff Jezos/Nick Land.
People make comments like this thinking they are so profound but they just reflect that you simplify our side and think we should all be the same.
I thought Eliezer and I were closely aligned but it’s very important to him that we aren’t. If you’re implying I should have just taken his abuse and done what he wanted, no.
I agree with you, this is a lament!
Oh good. You wouldn’t believe how often people treat me like I’m stupid for being the victim of this. Or for having standards about who I work with and what I let into PauseAI.
I don't even understand what he was saying or what he wanted.
He should be encouraging people to stop pushing frontier AI and instead working on AI safety - that has been his whole message!
Can you elaborate on how effective the naming-and-shaming strategy was? Any numbers?
Two people left AI company jobs (I won’t say who) related to it. Otherwise it’s more of an Overton window-pushing deal.
Yay!! That is great news! Is the goal to get them working on AI safety instead? To work on AI pause? Or just to drain the evil companies of talent?
Yeah I was just asking them not to contribute to it. The point was for working for the labs to be stigmatized as it should.
Oh dear! Perhaps the approach of, ahem, Ben Shapiro is an option - get a colleague to manage the account and so keep the benefits while filtering out the nonsense. (PS: Could someone (mis-)read the above post as a resignation letter not just from X/Twitter, but from PauseAI / the wider cause?)
No, it's only an exit from trying to influence my old AI insider friends. I'll just stop doing that side project from PauseAI US.
Ah, well the subtlety of the wording was over my head (not sure about other heads)!