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Maxim Lott's avatar

Interesting. This raises the question of what should be considered an "orientation" vs just "a trait you currently have."

An orientation implies that something is innate, unchangeable, fine, and must be accepted by society.

"A trait you currently have" on the other hand, might be good -- but also it might be holding you back, making you and others less happy, etc.

How sure are you that your current approach to friendship is the former, not the latter? As someone in the middle (I think) of the friends-initiating distribution, it feels like I could increase or decrease this a good deal if it would make my/others lives better to do so. So, it does not feel like an orientation.

(As an aside, a similar criticism has been made of Myers-Briggs -- namely that, if interpreted as prescriptive rather than merely descriptive, it can lead people to create self-reinforcing stereotypes for themselves. Making everything an orientation could do the same.)

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Kenny's avatar

This is very insightful and enlightening – for me anyways.

I'm Sad now that I realize that I've often thought about, e.g. flakiness, as something blameworthy. That's particularly Sad because I think I'm generally pretty good at charity, even towards much worse behavior!

I've long thought about the differences in 'friendship styles', tho without the convenient handles this post provides. Most of my friends are individual relationships, tho there are some weak ties to specific groups too; tho almost all pretty small groups. I also enjoy many weak, but still intimate, relationships with people I regularly encounter, like neighbors, or shop owners.

One difference might be that I was _somewhat_ able to be a (weak) 'top' in otherwise tenuous friendships. My 'hack' was to, when I learned a friend's birthday, add it to my calendar. Contacting people on their birthdays seems like a reasonable Schelling point and a good way to maintain minimal, but still regular, contact.

Sadly, I just started removing friend's birthdays from my calendar – because they weren't even contacting me on my birthday. I think I'm just missing friends (and a romantic relationship) and – so you've convinced me – unfairly punishing my distant bottom-friends out of resentment. (I want some (more) friends that wish _me_ a happy birthday!) I think now, thanks to you, that I should maintain the distinction between what kind of 'friend activity' I want, and what any particular friend is capable/willing to give me.

I think one aspect tho that's still hard, for some people (e.g. me), to handle is 'flaky talk'. It's hard (for me) to reliably translate what flaky people say into reasonable expectations. I haven't been able to entirely dismiss any expectations without also falling into 'friend nihilism'. Maybe it's unavoidable that each friendship has to be independently calibrated.

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